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<title>{EUROPE &gt; NEWS AND MEDIA} - Is 41 too late to become a father?</title>
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<summary type="text/plain">Last night I ate a large bowl of beetroot from my garden. This morning my urine is the colour of rosé wine and I'm worried that my semen might have taken on a similar hue. The colour of my semen is a concern because someone will be studying it in a short while. I'm considering this while sitting in the top floor 'specimen room' of the London Fertility Centre on Harley Street. Later on, when I mention where I've been to friends and colleagues they seem really interested in the interior design details of a room set aside for masturbation. So if you're planning one, here's some decorating tips. The room is on the second floor and it has two notices on its door: one saying 'Quiet Please' (in case passers-by are inclined to cheer or clap, I guess) and a sliding sign with 'Vacant/Occupied' options - I've opted for 'occupied' although I'm not, so far. Inside, the room is about 6ft x 12ft and painted in various pale non-colours. It is equipped with an ensuite shower, light-green vinyl-covered daybed and a fudge-coloured bathroom suite (including bidet). There is a sash window - which isn't overlooked. The atmosphere is more Carry On than Casualty. On one side of the sink there is a small empty plastic beaker (with my name on it). On the other a DVD player, screen and a remote. I consider all the hands that have touched the remote. Using one of the many tissues provided I pick it up and inspect it; it appears to be clean. The television doesn't show any of the normal channels.I'm here because I'm concerned about my sperm. Not that they might be beetroot coloured, but rather that they might not be fit for purpose. That they might not be as athletic, plentiful and perfectly formed as they need to be. I'm 41 and childless, and although I'm not involved in a 'trying-for-a-baby'-type scenario I've been reading the papers and the news for fortysomething men and their sperm isn't great.'Scientists warn that biological clock affects male fertility' warned the Guardian in July - well, scientists are always saying stuff aren't they? 'Risk of miscarriage soars once the father reaches 35' (Daily Mail) - that sounds worrying. 'Blokes going infertile aged 35' (Sun). Must have sex, pronto! The papers were all reporting in their own particular ways on the research of Dr Stephanie Belloc from the Eylau Centre for Assisted Reproduction in Paris. Dr Belloc had studied the records of 12,000 couples who visited her clinic and separated out the influence of the mother's and father's ages on the chances of conception and miscarriage. Belloc and her team found that women whose partners were 35 or older had more miscarriages than those who were with younger men, regardless of their own age. The risk of miscarriage was on average 16.7 per cent when the men were aged 30-34, but it doubled to 33 per cent in men over 40. Moreover, her research showed that men's ages also affected pregnancy rates, which were lower in the over-40s. As the Mirror summed it up, 'Over-35? You're a dad loss.'I can remember ridiculing my own father for being 40, so how did I end up childless at 41? To start with I went to university and became middle-class. It seems only people from council estates and people who own estates have kids young these days. The middle classes are too busy in their twenties establishing careers, climbing the property ladder and going on snowboarding holidays.Although lack of one doesn't stop some people, I feel you need to be in a reasonably stable relationship before having kids - and I haven't been in one of those of late. But of late, many of my peers are reproducing, some are already on to their third. Even the ones who had drug problems are conceiving and, meanwhile, gay friends are cutting breeding deals with lesbians. I wonder if time is running out.It's an easy thought to have because I can't act on it, but sometimes I think I should have had some children in my twenties. I had more energy and didn't have many material comforts to give up or much of a lifestyle to compromise. I'd be packing them off to university around now, thumbing sports car brochures and thinking about buying a peach farm in Spain. Frankly, I can't remember that much of my twenties, so maybe it would have put this decade of void to good use. I don't recall any of my peers having kids; maybe it was a hangover from the Aids era - people seemed pretty conscientious about birth control, there were no 'accidents'. So now, at 41, I wonder if I've skipped the whole kids thing. I seem to be developing the hobbies and pastimes of a senior citizen - golf, growing beetroot, buffing my classic car. But the reality is I've got 19 years until I qualify for my bus pass - which is just enough time to raise at least one human being. So should I be worried about or believe in the 'male biological clock'?Back in 2001, Professor Dolores Malaspina, of Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, concluded that men aged 50 or over are three times more likely to father a child with schizophrenia compared with men of 25 or under. Four years later, epidemiologist Jorn Olsen at the University of California, Los Angeles, found a fourfold rise in Down's syndrome among babies born to men aged 50 and older. And in 2006 scientists from the Institute of Psychiatry at King's College, London and Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York found that children born to fathers aged 40 and over were nearly six times more likely to suffer from autism than those with a father under 30. Meanwhile, other researchers have suggested patterns between older fathers and increased chances of bipolar disorder, dwarfism and Apert syndrome - whose unlucky sufferers have a malformed skull and webbed hands and feet, among other disfigurements. A report in 2006 even suggested 'a modest effect of advanced paternal age on the Apgar score'. And after finding out what an Apgar score is I now know this to be less than good. The evidence appeared to be stacking up.Yet are these findings as scary as they sound? Dr Belloc's sample was made up entirely of couples presenting for infertility treatment. 'It is not evident that we can extrapolate these conclusions to a fertile population,' she tells me. And many of the incidences in the other studies are minute; so a fivefold increase is still only a five-times-minute chance of some disorder or other. Moreover, these studies only show patterns, rather than direct causal links - finding a direct link would probably require examining DNA at a detail beyond most researchers' budgets or ability. Some commentators have speculated that if a man first becomes a father in his forties or fifties that may indicate he has had trouble forming relationships earlier in his life, which may mean in a mild, undiagnosed kind of way he's a carrier of problems like bipolar disorder or autism which have a genetic element - so his paternal age is irrelevant to the outcome.Which isn't exactly comforting, but it suggests the 'male biological clock' doesn't tick as loudly as the headlines suggest. For Dr Allan Pacey, senior lecturer in andrology at Sheffield University, the clock is nothing more than ageing. As you grow older, you lose a bit of hair and experience the odd 'senior moment', so you shouldn't be surprised if your sperm isn't as sprightly as it used to be. 'In terms of numbers it's the same, but what tends to happen is that the sperm isn't as good.' If their biological clock is ticking, men are pretty deaf to it. The age of fatherhood is creeping up: the latest figures from the Office of National Statistics show that the average age of married fathers rose from 29.1 in 1971 to 34.1 in 2003 - getting close to the 35-year point where some of the problems are alleged to kick in. I ask Dr Pacey if this is a worrying trend. 'The problem is couples are waiting until they are older. To wait until the woman is approaching 40 is the wrong time to be starting, and that will be exasperated by any problem that he has due to ageing.' Dr Pacey's advice to me is not to hang about: 'You will be more successful having a child naturally at an earlier age; it will be cheaper for you and it will be much more fun than waiting until you're well into your forties, going to an infertility clinic and having it done artificially. What we're finding are lots of people attending infertility clinics in their forties who would have succeeded in getting pregnant at 25. Rather than waiting for technology to sort it out, if you are in a position to have children early, then go ahead and do it.'What Dr Pacey and others are quick to point out is that there's definitely a female biological clock. Women are born with a finite number of eggs and at some point they will run out. According to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA), a woman is half as fertile at 35 as she is at 25, and half as fertile again at 40.You might be thinking, 'Why is he bothering to spell that out, everyone knows that?' Well, before researching this piece I was only vaguely aware of those blunt facts, but, more surprisingly, when chatting to single and married thirtysomething childless women about this article they start saying things like: 'My gran had my mother at 45,' 'What about Madonna?' or, most biologically incorrect: 'I'm not ready yet.' They seemed about as informed as I was. 'With the Madonnas and all the rest who seem to have children quite naturally, no one mentions IVF or egg donors, and celebrity miscarriages don't make the pages of Heat,' says Dr Pacey. 'This silence reinforces the myth that these miracle births happen, when often there's a medical intervention.' And IVF isn't a safety net: according to the HFEA, IVF has only a 12 per cent success rate for a 40-year-old woman. And it will cost you: the NHS, on the advice of the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (Nice), doesn't fund IVF for women over 40 because of the low success rate. The average cost of a cycle is £4,000-£8,000. Is it chauvinistic to question the sense of delaying having kids for the sake of a career if you're going to spend most of the extra income on fertility treatment?However it's not only career building that is nudging the maternal age up; those commitment-phobic, nappy-changing-averse partners make a contribution, too - people like me. One could argue that this male biological clock business is providing men with another excuse to avoid having kids - we move from 'I'm not ready yet' to 'It's too dangerous now' in the time it takes to power up a Nintendo Wii. Or maybe you could blame the introduction of Viagra - which has engendered the idea that men can stay virile forever, so why rush? - as most men think the difference between virility and fertility is latex thin. But if you're looking for something that's really obscuring the hands of the male biological clock, look to famous people. When it comes to fertility, biology tells us one thing, but celebrities tell us another: ie, no matter how superannuated you are, getting your girlfriend up the duff is child's play. Middle-aged famous fellas love a baby shower. Dr Pacey isn't impressed: 'The John Humphrys thing does distort the picture. There'll be lots of men who will read this piece and say, "I was 50 and I had a child," and it's really difficult to argue against that because they do, but statistically you are less likely to succeed and more likely to have problems. For the individual who has been successful it will seem stupid that I'm saying that, but for every 50-year-old father there'll be 10 times more thinking, "I had a lot of problems."'Even if you, your sperm and your wife from a younger generation manage to buck the stats, there are other non-bio reasons against fathering kids late. Most obviously you might die before they graduate - if you're 65 now, on average you'll die at 82 - although for how much longer you will be capable of having a kick-about, helping them with their homework or visiting the lavatory without their assistance isn't recorded. And while it's embarrassing to be mistaken occasionally for their grandfather, it's thoughtless not to meet your grandchildren.Am I being too hard on the older dad? I call Charlie Lewis, professor of family and developmental psychology at Lancaster University. Should we give middle-aged men the snip? 'Some men claim to be better fathers when older, but I don't see this in the majority of men. I find them saying, "I'm clapped out, I've done my bit at work, I've provided a house and comfortable living, now let me vegetate." They think it's their right to sit in front of the telly and not take part in any interaction. It's almost autistic. Older fathers tend to do less of the stereotypical activities than younger fathers do, less childcare and less kicking footballs - for fear of snapping a tendon. They think, "I'm much too old for this."'Surprisingly, Lewis is more relaxed about the dying thing. 'I don't want to put fathers down, but if you look at the majority of evidence on loss, it does point to losing a mother before 11 being more predictive of later social/psycho disorders than losing a father. These effects are most often caused by the child absorbing the surviving partner's grief. So if the mother can manage the grieving process, the predictable death of an older father needn't be a life-changing trauma.'Dads dead or alive, we should be more concerned about the kids, says Lewis. 'You do get studies that say old dads feel closer to their kids, but I'm not aware that kids feel closer to their older fathers.'I wonder if I would become one of these dead-beat, distant dads. I like to think not. I don't quite understand how that could happen. What kind of an individual would tune into a Top Gear repeat rather than read to their child or even relieve them of a shitty nappy? Maybe I'm being naive. I talk to some dad friends.Gary, 45, first became a father when he was 23, but then remarried and had three more children, the oldest of whom is five. Would he like to compare and contrast? 'Obviously becoming a father young was a bit of a shock, it made me grow up quickly. I'm not sure at that age if you're responsible enough to look after yourself let alone a little child.' So how is it second time around: does older dad mean better dad? 'When my second wife first wanted children I did have slight panic attacks, because I had this memory of it being a total whirlwind, but this time it's completely different, it doesn't seem half as stressful as when I was in my twenties.' Gary says this isn't just because he's been a parent before - 'No, it's mainly because I'm more grown-up, more patient, more financially settled. I'm far more chilled out this time around.' So you'd advise an older option? 'It's better to have children at a later date, but myself, I'm worried about getting older. First time round I was one of the youngest parents in the playground; now I'm one of the oldest. My youngest is 10 months, so I'll be at retirement or grandfather age in her late teens. You hope to be running around in the park, doing those things that children want you to do and provide as parents. Hopefully I'll be one of those who manages it, but I will have to wait and see.'The energy issue: I've heard this raised before. People talk about the nuclear-like amounts of energy you need to bring up a child, but I suspect it's similar to the stamina needed to squire a girlfriend half your age. Because down-ageing your just-broody girlfriends each time they start describing a new frock as 'a bit maternity' is really the only alternative to producing offspring.Jonathan, 49, had two sons when he was 23 and 27. He says the early months were 'terrifying', and both he and his girlfriend had to abandon their career plans: 'Our embryonic lives together as a couple were entirely transformed into a fully fledged proper adult relationship. And we didn't have much money - I even used to scavenge skips for firewood.' But for all the foraging the relatively small age difference means he's closer to his kids. 'We can go to the cinema together, appreciate some of the same music, go out for a beer, they call me by my first name.' He got divorced and, a couple of years ago, he remarried. He isn't keen to become a father again: 'I'm interested in the relationship with my wife rather than with anyone else. The relationship I have with my children is established, I like the marriage and lifestyle we have, and because of my previous experience I can see how that could be compromised.' What is his advice for someone like me, thinking of becoming a father in my forties? 'I think, you're not going to get a lot of sleep. And by the time you're my age, when you take your kids to a restaurant they'll be running around banging their heads, stealing food, whereas I'll be discussing the amount of oak in the Sauvignon with mine. I'd think about that quite carefully.'So that's what I should have done. Bred early. Guess there's no point in crying over spilled, er, milk.The trouble with this when-to-procreate business is it's personal. Apologies, it's not much of an insight but everyone is different. They earn lots of money, earn not much money, like kids, don't like kids, have live-in help, are still looking for The One, are given a babies-or-else ultimatum by their partners,  had a shit childhood themselves, don't feel the need to have babies to preserve their relationship, are worried they'll pass on a condition, feel they've established their career, don't want a career, haven't been to Patagonia yet - the list of caveats and factors that make it the 'right time' for someone is as long as the waiting list for a Doctor Who Dalek Electronic Voice Changer Helmet.So, to borrow a phrase from a Dragon: 'Let me tell you where I am.' For me, I think 45 is the cut-off. For biological reasons - you can't donate sperm past 45 - there must be something in those scary reports. And financially, I'd like to retire on time, if indeed I'm lucky enough to still have a career by then. Which doesn't give me much time, I guess, to meet someone, fall in love, imagine being with this person for the foreseeable future - if that's not over-romantic, delusional, too-much-like-a-John-Cusack-movie. But I'm getting ahead of myself: maybe I'm firing blanks anyhow.For the 20-minute wait while my sperm is being tested, I chat to Dr Magdy Asaad, clinical director, in his office about the problems with semen. Mine is being tested for volume, viscosity, concentration, mobility, morphology and antibodies. Dr Asaad uses the gold standard WHO criteria which are surprisingly generous - only 50 per cent of your sperm needs to move, for instance, and you're allowed up to 80 per cent with an abnormal form, such as funny-shaped heads or two tails, 'because 20 per cent of 20m is considered enough, it's a lot of sperm,' Dr Asaad chuckles.I'm curious: do anxious men often pop in on their own for a lunchtime sperm test, check everything is wriggling right? 'It's not common, but when men present on their own, it's normally a problem with their ability to have an erection or ejaculation.'Well as you can tell I have no problems in that area, I say.'But some men don't like to give a sample,' he continues. 'They find all kinds of excuses: maybe they are worried it will not be good, or that it's an artificial thing, to press a button [is he talking about the remote control?]. I don't know how it was for you, I'm not asking. Sometimes a gentleman will have difficulty preparing manually.' Unbelievable.The walls and desk of the doctor's office are smothered with framed photographs of beaming parents with their children - patients he's helped to fashion a bundle of joy for over the years. In your experience, I ask Dr Asaad, when is a good age for procreation? 'You're mature enough by your late twenties, early thirties, responsible enough, you probably have a job, a partner. I don't think it's a very serious problem waiting to 40-45, but beyond that you have to think about time with the child.'With that, Dr Asaad prints off a piece of A4 containing all my sperm's vital statistics. 'It's a good sample,' he says, 'so you're all right.' I'll spare you the details.On one hand this is a relief, but on the other it means I've no alibi, no excuses, I'm ready to breed. All I need now is a woman.Paternity frights: ten bus-pass fathersJulio Iglesias Sr, a dad at 89Nobody could accuse the gynaecologist father of Julio and grandfather of Enrique, and who was head of a Madrid family-planning unit, of not taking his work home with him. After having two children with his first wife, he remarried and, at 89, when his wife was 40, produced another son. Barely out of the maternity ward, Ronna signed up for IVF and within a few months was pregnant again. Tragically, filling a test-tube turned out to be the former Franco supporter's last significant act: two months later he was muerto. His daughter Ruth was born posthumously seven months later in July 2006. Dad-speak: 'At my age, a child is marvellous. I felt just like Abraham. It was an act of generosity towards her [Ronna]. I leave her part of my blood, of my life.'Saul Bellow, a dad at 84The Nobel Prize-winning novelist had four children: three sons with his first three wives, and a daughter, Naomi-Rose, with his 41-year-old fifth wife. He died when she was five, in 2005. Writing two months after his death, one of his sons, Adam, whose mother Bellow left when he was two, recalled 'a fond but highly attenuated bond with a frequently distracted, often absent and much older father.'Dad-speak: 'Well, my wife won't be lonely when I die. She'll have somebody'Anthony Quinn, a dad at 81The star of more than 100 movies, including Zorba the Greek and The Guns of Navarone, enjoyed procreating. He had five children with his first wife Katherine, the daughter of Cecil B DeMille, three with the second, then at the age of 81, he got his 29-year-old secretary pregnant, married her and had two children. The double Oscar-winner also squeezed in three more children with women he wasn't married to before he died in 2001.  Dad-speak: [of his penultimate child] 'She's beautiful, she looks like me'Rupert Murdoch, a dad at 72The Australian-American global media mogul (real first name Keith) has been married three times. He produced one child with the first and three (Elizabeth, James and Lachlan) during a 31-year marriage to the second. Seventeen days after the $1.2bn divorce, the Dirty Digger married former photographic model Deng Wendi (she transposed her names post nuptials), a 30-year-old executive at his Asian Star TV channel. They have two children, the most recent in July 2003. Dad-speak: 'All my children will be treated equally'Des O'Connor, a dad at 72The former Countdown host has been married four times and has four grown-up daughters. His current wife, the 37-years-younger singer/dancer Jodie, who he met in 1990, when they were doing panto together, provided him with a son in September 2004. Dad-speak: 'When the baby was born the odd comment was made about my age, but I plan to play football with Adam'Luciano Pavarotti, a dad at 67The well-upholstered tenor had three daughters with his first wife, who he stayed with for 35 years. Then, in 1996, he left her for his secretary, Nicoletta - 36 years his junior. In 2003 she gave birth to twins, another daughter and a son; tragically, the latter was stillborn. 'The King of the High Cs' died after a long battle with pancreatic cancer just before his youngest daughter's fifth birthday. Dad-speak: 'I never imagined that at this time of life I would have another child. But I met Nicoletta, and she is young'Warren Beatty, a dad at 62After years of womanising (Natalie Wood, Julie Christie, Isabelle Adjani, Vivien Leigh, Cher, Madonna, Carly Simon, Barbra Streisand, Britt Ekland, Diane Keaton, Mary Tyler Moore, Janice Dickinson and Faye Dunaway to name a few) he plumped for Annette Bening. They've had four kids, the latest of whom was born in 2000. I think we can assume fatherhood has mellowed Warren. Dad-speak: 'We're fortunate to have a big house'Rod Stewart, a dad at 60The rooster-haired senior citizen has been breeding for 41 years. He's had seven children by five different women, although modest Rod often downgrades to six offspring, passing over his first, who was put up for adoption: 'You can count her if you want. I try not to,' he once said. Penny Lancaster provided him with his sixth/seventh, Alastair, in 2005. According to his brother Don, Rod prefers to leave Alastair's nappy-changing and feeding to the hired help. Unperturbed, 37-year-old Penny has dropped heavy hints she'd like a second with the 63-year-old Celtic fan.Dad-speak: 'I didn't see my oldest kids a lot as they were growing up. I don't feel any guilt, but maybe having a family is something Rachel and Alana and I should have thought about more before we had children'Michael Douglas, a dad at 58The Basic Instinct star had a son, Cameron, with Diandra Luker, his wife of 23 years. She divorced him in 2000. Later that year he ran into Catherine Zeta Jones and seduced her with the admirably direct and honest line: 'I'd like to father your children.' True to his word he hasn't let the 25-year age gap stop him from impregnating her twice, when he was 55 and 58.Dad-speak: 'It's not that I didn't enjoy it the first time, but I just didn't have the time. I'm not the only father who has felt guilty about the lack of time spent with his kids. So now I have a situation where I can savour it with my younger children. And you can see the effect of hanging out with them for three years and the security they have. And for me, it's a ball. Movie roles come and go and it's a finite period of time. This is sort of eternal'John Humphrys, a dad at 56The Welsh son of a hairdresser and French polisher has been married twice. The first wife provided the Mastermind host with two children, now both grown up. He remarried in 1987 and, after a reverse vasectomy, the Today programme interrogator became a proud father to a son, Owen. Dad speak: 'I thought I might resent this little kid for buggering up my life, as it were. The opposite has happened to me because of him. He's the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to me'FamilyHealth &amp; wellbeingHealthguardian.co.uk © Guardian News &amp; Media Limited 2008 | Use of this content is subject to our Terms &amp; Conditions | More Feeds</summary>
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<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">Www.Guardian.Co.Uk</span> - Last night I ate a large bowl of beetroot from my garden. This morning my urine is the colour of rosé wine and I'm worried that my semen might have taken on a similar hue. The colour of my semen is a concern because someone will be studying it in a short while. I'm considering this while sitting in the top floor 'specimen room' of the London Fertility Centre on Harley Street. Later on, when I mention where I've been to friends and colleagues they seem really interested in the interior design details of a room set aside for masturbation. So if you're planning one, here's some decorating tips. The room is on the second floor and it has two notices on its door: one saying 'Quiet Please' (in case passers-by are inclined to cheer or clap, I guess) and a sliding sign with 'Vacant/Occupied' options - I've opted for 'occupied' although I'm not, so far. Inside, the room is about 6ft x 12ft and painted in various pale non-colours. It is equipped with an ensuite shower, light-green vinyl-covered daybed and a fudge-coloured bathroom suite (including bidet). There is a sash window - which isn't overlooked. The atmosphere is more Carry On than Casualty. On one side of the sink there is a small empty plastic beaker (with my name on it). On the other a DVD player, screen and a remote. I consider all the hands that have touched the remote. Using one of the many tissues provided I pick it up and inspect it; it appears to be clean. The television doesn't show any of the normal channels.I'm here because I'm concerned about my sperm. Not that they might be beetroot coloured, but rather that they might not be fit for purpose. That they might not be as athletic, plentiful and perfectly formed as they need to be. I'm 41 and childless, and although I'm not involved in a 'trying-for-a-baby'-type scenario I've been reading the papers and the news for fortysomething men and their sperm isn't great.'Scientists warn that biological clock affects male fertility' warned the Guardian in July - well, scientists are always saying stuff aren't they? 'Risk of miscarriage soars once the father reaches 35' (Daily Mail) - that sounds worrying. 'Blokes going infertile aged 35' (Sun). Must have sex, pronto! The papers were all reporting in their own particular ways on the research of Dr Stephanie Belloc from the Eylau Centre for Assisted Reproduction in Paris. Dr Belloc had studied the records of 12,000 couples who visited her clinic and separated out the influence of the mother's and father's ages on the chances of conception and miscarriage. Belloc and her team found that women whose partners were 35 or older had more miscarriages than those who were with younger men, regardless of their own age. The risk of miscarriage was on average 16.7 per cent when the men were aged 30-34, but it doubled to 33 per cent in men over 40. Moreover, her research showed that men's ages also affected pregnancy rates, which were lower in the over-40s. As the Mirror summed it up, 'Over-35? You're a dad loss.'I can remember ridiculing my own father for being 40, so how did I end up childless at 41? To start with I went to university and became middle-class. It seems only people from council estates and people who own estates have kids young these days. The middle classes are too busy in their twenties establishing careers, climbing the property ladder and going on snowboarding holidays.Although lack of one doesn't stop some people, I feel you need to be in a reasonably stable relationship before having kids - and I haven't been in one of those of late. But of late, many of my peers are reproducing, some are already on to their third. Even the ones who had drug problems are conceiving and, meanwhile, gay friends are cutting breeding deals with lesbians. I wonder if time is running out.It's an easy thought to have because I can't act on it, but sometimes I think I should have had some children in my twenties. I had more energy and didn't have many material comforts to give up or much of a lifestyle to compromise. I'd be packing them off to university around now, thumbing sports car brochures and thinking about buying a peach farm in Spain. Frankly, I can't remember that much of my twenties, so maybe it would have put this decade of void to good use. I don't recall any of my peers having kids; maybe it was a hangover from the Aids era - people seemed pretty conscientious about birth control, there were no 'accidents'. So now, at 41, I wonder if I've skipped the whole kids thing. I seem to be developing the hobbies and pastimes of a senior citizen - golf, growing beetroot, buffing my classic car. But the reality is I've got 19 years until I qualify for my bus pass - which is just enough time to raise at least one human being. So should I be worried about or believe in the 'male biological clock'?Back in 2001, Professor Dolores Malaspina, of Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, concluded that men aged 50 or over are three times more likely to father a child with schizophrenia compared with men of 25 or under. Four years later, epidemiologist Jorn Olsen at the University of California, Los Angeles, found a fourfold rise in Down's syndrome among babies born to men aged 50 and older. And in 2006 scientists from the Institute of Psychiatry at King's College, London and Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York found that children born to fathers aged 40 and over were nearly six times more likely to suffer from autism than those with a father under 30. Meanwhile, other researchers have suggested patterns between older fathers and increased chances of bipolar disorder, dwarfism and Apert syndrome - whose unlucky sufferers have a malformed skull and webbed hands and feet, among other disfigurements. A report in 2006 even suggested 'a modest effect of advanced paternal age on the Apgar score'. And after finding out what an Apgar score is I now know this to be less than good. The evidence appeared to be stacking up.Yet are these findings as scary as they sound? Dr Belloc's sample was made up entirely of couples presenting for infertility treatment. 'It is not evident that we can extrapolate these conclusions to a fertile population,' she tells me. And many of the incidences in the other studies are minute; so a fivefold increase is still only a five-times-minute chance of some disorder or other. Moreover, these studies only show patterns, rather than direct causal links - finding a direct link would probably require examining DNA at a detail beyond most researchers' budgets or ability. Some commentators have speculated that if a man first becomes a father in his forties or fifties that may indicate he has had trouble forming relationships earlier in his life, which may mean in a mild, undiagnosed kind of way he's a carrier of problems like bipolar disorder or autism which have a genetic element - so his paternal age is irrelevant to the outcome.Which isn't exactly comforting, but it suggests the 'male biological clock' doesn't tick as loudly as the headlines suggest. For Dr Allan Pacey, senior lecturer in andrology at Sheffield University, the clock is nothing more than ageing. As you grow older, you lose a bit of hair and experience the odd 'senior moment', so you shouldn't be surprised if your sperm isn't as sprightly as it used to be. 'In terms of numbers it's the same, but what tends to happen is that the sperm isn't as good.' If their biological clock is ticking, men are pretty deaf to it. The age of fatherhood is creeping up: the latest figures from the Office of National Statistics show that the average age of married fathers rose from 29.1 in 1971 to 34.1 in 2003 - getting close to the 35-year point where some of the problems are alleged to kick in. I ask Dr Pacey if this is a worrying trend. 'The problem is couples are waiting until they are older. To wait until the woman is approaching 40 is the wrong time to be starting, and that will be exasperated by any problem that he has due to ageing.' Dr Pacey's advice to me is not to hang about: 'You will be more successful having a child naturally at an earlier age; it will be cheaper for you and it will be much more fun than waiting until you're well into your forties, going to an infertility clinic and having it done artificially. What we're finding are lots of people attending infertility clinics in their forties who would have succeeded in getting pregnant at 25. Rather than waiting for technology to sort it out, if you are in a position to have children early, then go ahead and do it.'What Dr Pacey and others are quick to point out is that there's definitely a female biological clock. Women are born with a finite number of eggs and at some point they will run out. According to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA), a woman is half as fertile at 35 as she is at 25, and half as fertile again at 40.You might be thinking, 'Why is he bothering to spell that out, everyone knows that?' Well, before researching this piece I was only vaguely aware of those blunt facts, but, more surprisingly, when chatting to single and married thirtysomething childless women about this article they start saying things like: 'My gran had my mother at 45,' 'What about Madonna?' or, most biologically incorrect: 'I'm not ready yet.' They seemed about as informed as I was. 'With the Madonnas and all the rest who seem to have children quite naturally, no one mentions IVF or egg donors, and celebrity miscarriages don't make the pages of Heat,' says Dr Pacey. 'This silence reinforces the myth that these miracle births happen, when often there's a medical intervention.' And IVF isn't a safety net: according to the HFEA, IVF has only a 12 per cent success rate for a 40-year-old woman. And it will cost you: the NHS, on the advice of the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (Nice), doesn't fund IVF for women over 40 because of the low success rate. The average cost of a cycle is £4,000-£8,000. Is it chauvinistic to question the sense of delaying having kids for the sake of a career if you're going to spend most of the extra income on fertility treatment?However it's not only career building that is nudging the maternal age up; those commitment-phobic, nappy-changing-averse partners make a contribution, too - people like me. One could argue that this male biological clock business is providing men with another excuse to avoid having kids - we move from 'I'm not ready yet' to 'It's too dangerous now' in the time it takes to power up a Nintendo Wii. Or maybe you could blame the introduction of Viagra - which has engendered the idea that men can stay virile forever, so why rush? - as most men think the difference between virility and fertility is latex thin. But if you're looking for something that's really obscuring the hands of the male biological clock, look to famous people. When it comes to fertility, biology tells us one thing, but celebrities tell us another: ie, no matter how superannuated you are, getting your girlfriend up the duff is child's play. Middle-aged famous fellas love a baby shower. Dr Pacey isn't impressed: 'The John Humphrys thing does distort the picture. There'll be lots of men who will read this piece and say, "I was 50 and I had a child," and it's really difficult to argue against that because they do, but statistically you are less likely to succeed and more likely to have problems. For the individual who has been successful it will seem stupid that I'm saying that, but for every 50-year-old father there'll be 10 times more thinking, "I had a lot of problems."'Even if you, your sperm and your wife from a younger generation manage to buck the stats, there are other non-bio reasons against fathering kids late. Most obviously you might die before they graduate - if you're 65 now, on average you'll die at 82 - although for how much longer you will be capable of having a kick-about, helping them with their homework or visiting the lavatory without their assistance isn't recorded. And while it's embarrassing to be mistaken occasionally for their grandfather, it's thoughtless not to meet your grandchildren.Am I being too hard on the older dad? I call Charlie Lewis, professor of family and developmental psychology at Lancaster University. Should we give middle-aged men the snip? 'Some men claim to be better fathers when older, but I don't see this in the majority of men. I find them saying, "I'm clapped out, I've done my bit at work, I've provided a house and comfortable living, now let me vegetate." They think it's their right to sit in front of the telly and not take part in any interaction. It's almost autistic. Older fathers tend to do less of the stereotypical activities than younger fathers do, less childcare and less kicking footballs - for fear of snapping a tendon. They think, "I'm much too old for this."'Surprisingly, Lewis is more relaxed about the dying thing. 'I don't want to put fathers down, but if you look at the majority of evidence on loss, it does point to losing a mother before 11 being more predictive of later social/psycho disorders than losing a father. These effects are most often caused by the child absorbing the surviving partner's grief. So if the mother can manage the grieving process, the predictable death of an older father needn't be a life-changing trauma.'Dads dead or alive, we should be more concerned about the kids, says Lewis. 'You do get studies that say old dads feel closer to their kids, but I'm not aware that kids feel closer to their older fathers.'I wonder if I would become one of these dead-beat, distant dads. I like to think not. I don't quite understand how that could happen. What kind of an individual would tune into a Top Gear repeat rather than read to their child or even relieve them of a shitty nappy? Maybe I'm being naive. I talk to some dad friends.Gary, 45, first became a father when he was 23, but then remarried and had three more children, the oldest of whom is five. Would he like to compare and contrast? 'Obviously becoming a father young was a bit of a shock, it made me grow up quickly. I'm not sure at that age if you're responsible enough to look after yourself let alone a little child.' So how is it second time around: does older dad mean better dad? 'When my second wife first wanted children I did have slight panic attacks, because I had this memory of it being a total whirlwind, but this time it's completely different, it doesn't seem half as stressful as when I was in my twenties.' Gary says this isn't just because he's been a parent before - 'No, it's mainly because I'm more grown-up, more patient, more financially settled. I'm far more chilled out this time around.' So you'd advise an older option? 'It's better to have children at a later date, but myself, I'm worried about getting older. First time round I was one of the youngest parents in the playground; now I'm one of the oldest. My youngest is 10 months, so I'll be at retirement or grandfather age in her late teens. You hope to be running around in the park, doing those things that children want you to do and provide as parents. Hopefully I'll be one of those who manages it, but I will have to wait and see.'The energy issue: I've heard this raised before. People talk about the nuclear-like amounts of energy you need to bring up a child, but I suspect it's similar to the stamina needed to squire a girlfriend half your age. Because down-ageing your just-broody girlfriends each time they start describing a new frock as 'a bit maternity' is really the only alternative to producing offspring.Jonathan, 49, had two sons when he was 23 and 27. He says the early months were 'terrifying', and both he and his girlfriend had to abandon their career plans: 'Our embryonic lives together as a couple were entirely transformed into a fully fledged proper adult relationship. And we didn't have much money - I even used to scavenge skips for firewood.' But for all the foraging the relatively small age difference means he's closer to his kids. 'We can go to the cinema together, appreciate some of the same music, go out for a beer, they call me by my first name.' He got divorced and, a couple of years ago, he remarried. He isn't keen to become a father again: 'I'm interested in the relationship with my wife rather than with anyone else. The relationship I have with my children is established, I like the marriage and lifestyle we have, and because of my previous experience I can see how that could be compromised.' What is his advice for someone like me, thinking of becoming a father in my forties? 'I think, you're not going to get a lot of sleep. And by the time you're my age, when you take your kids to a restaurant they'll be running around banging their heads, stealing food, whereas I'll be discussing the amount of oak in the Sauvignon with mine. I'd think about that quite carefully.'So that's what I should have done. Bred early. Guess there's no point in crying over spilled, er, milk.The trouble with this when-to-procreate business is it's personal. Apologies, it's not much of an insight but everyone is different. They earn lots of money, earn not much money, like kids, don't like kids, have live-in help, are still looking for The One, are given a babies-or-else ultimatum by their partners,  had a shit childhood themselves, don't feel the need to have babies to preserve their relationship, are worried they'll pass on a condition, feel they've established their career, don't want a career, haven't been to Patagonia yet - the list of caveats and factors that make it the 'right time' for someone is as long as the waiting list for a Doctor Who Dalek Electronic Voice Changer Helmet.So, to borrow a phrase from a Dragon: 'Let me tell you where I am.' For me, I think 45 is the cut-off. For biological reasons - you can't donate sperm past 45 - there must be something in those scary reports. And financially, I'd like to retire on time, if indeed I'm lucky enough to still have a career by then. Which doesn't give me much time, I guess, to meet someone, fall in love, imagine being with this person for the foreseeable future - if that's not over-romantic, delusional, too-much-like-a-John-Cusack-movie. But I'm getting ahead of myself: maybe I'm firing blanks anyhow.For the 20-minute wait while my sperm is being tested, I chat to Dr Magdy Asaad, clinical director, in his office about the problems with semen. Mine is being tested for volume, viscosity, concentration, mobility, morphology and antibodies. Dr Asaad uses the gold standard WHO criteria which are surprisingly generous - only 50 per cent of your sperm needs to move, for instance, and you're allowed up to 80 per cent with an abnormal form, such as funny-shaped heads or two tails, 'because 20 per cent of 20m is considered enough, it's a lot of sperm,' Dr Asaad chuckles.I'm curious: do anxious men often pop in on their own for a lunchtime sperm test, check everything is wriggling right? 'It's not common, but when men present on their own, it's normally a problem with their ability to have an erection or ejaculation.'Well as you can tell I have no problems in that area, I say.'But some men don't like to give a sample,' he continues. 'They find all kinds of excuses: maybe they are worried it will not be good, or that it's an artificial thing, to press a button [is he talking about the remote control?]. I don't know how it was for you, I'm not asking. Sometimes a gentleman will have difficulty preparing manually.' Unbelievable.The walls and desk of the doctor's office are smothered with framed photographs of beaming parents with their children - patients he's helped to fashion a bundle of joy for over the years. In your experience, I ask Dr Asaad, when is a good age for procreation? 'You're mature enough by your late twenties, early thirties, responsible enough, you probably have a job, a partner. I don't think it's a very serious problem waiting to 40-45, but beyond that you have to think about time with the child.'With that, Dr Asaad prints off a piece of A4 containing all my sperm's vital statistics. 'It's a good sample,' he says, 'so you're all right.' I'll spare you the details.On one hand this is a relief, but on the other it means I've no alibi, no excuses, I'm ready to breed. All I need now is a woman.Paternity frights: ten bus-pass fathersJulio Iglesias Sr, a dad at 89Nobody could accuse the gynaecologist father of Julio and grandfather of Enrique, and who was head of a Madrid family-planning unit, of not taking his work home with him. After having two children with his first wife, he remarried and, at 89, when his wife was 40, produced another son. Barely out of the maternity ward, Ronna signed up for IVF and within a few months was pregnant again. Tragically, filling a test-tube turned out to be the former Franco supporter's last significant act: two months later he was muerto. His daughter Ruth was born posthumously seven months later in July 2006. Dad-speak: 'At my age, a child is marvellous. I felt just like Abraham. It was an act of generosity towards her [Ronna]. I leave her part of my blood, of my life.'Saul Bellow, a dad at 84The Nobel Prize-winning novelist had four children: three sons with his first three wives, and a daughter, Naomi-Rose, with his 41-year-old fifth wife. He died when she was five, in 2005. Writing two months after his death, one of his sons, Adam, whose mother Bellow left when he was two, recalled 'a fond but highly attenuated bond with a frequently distracted, often absent and much older father.'Dad-speak: 'Well, my wife won't be lonely when I die. She'll have somebody'Anthony Quinn, a dad at 81The star of more than 100 movies, including Zorba the Greek and The Guns of Navarone, enjoyed procreating. He had five children with his first wife Katherine, the daughter of Cecil B DeMille, three with the second, then at the age of 81, he got his 29-year-old secretary pregnant, married her and had two children. The double Oscar-winner also squeezed in three more children with women he wasn't married to before he died in 2001.  Dad-speak: [of his penultimate child] 'She's beautiful, she looks like me'Rupert Murdoch, a dad at 72The Australian-American global media mogul (real first name Keith) has been married three times. He produced one child with the first and three (Elizabeth, James and Lachlan) during a 31-year marriage to the second. Seventeen days after the $1.2bn divorce, the Dirty Digger married former photographic model Deng Wendi (she transposed her names post nuptials), a 30-year-old executive at his Asian Star TV channel. They have two children, the most recent in July 2003. Dad-speak: 'All my children will be treated equally'Des O'Connor, a dad at 72The former Countdown host has been married four times and has four grown-up daughters. His current wife, the 37-years-younger singer/dancer Jodie, who he met in 1990, when they were doing panto together, provided him with a son in September 2004. Dad-speak: 'When the baby was born the odd comment was made about my age, but I plan to play football with Adam'Luciano Pavarotti, a dad at 67The well-upholstered tenor had three daughters with his first wife, who he stayed with for 35 years. Then, in 1996, he left her for his secretary, Nicoletta - 36 years his junior. In 2003 she gave birth to twins, another daughter and a son; tragically, the latter was stillborn. 'The King of the High Cs' died after a long battle with pancreatic cancer just before his youngest daughter's fifth birthday. Dad-speak: 'I never imagined that at this time of life I would have another child. But I met Nicoletta, and she is young'Warren Beatty, a dad at 62After years of womanising (Natalie Wood, Julie Christie, Isabelle Adjani, Vivien Leigh, Cher, Madonna, Carly Simon, Barbra Streisand, Britt Ekland, Diane Keaton, Mary Tyler Moore, Janice Dickinson and Faye Dunaway to name a few) he plumped for Annette Bening. They've had four kids, the latest of whom was born in 2000. I think we can assume fatherhood has mellowed Warren. Dad-speak: 'We're fortunate to have a big house'Rod Stewart, a dad at 60The rooster-haired senior citizen has been breeding for 41 years. He's had seven children by five different women, although modest Rod often downgrades to six offspring, passing over his first, who was put up for adoption: 'You can count her if you want. I try not to,' he once said. Penny Lancaster provided him with his sixth/seventh, Alastair, in 2005. According to his brother Don, Rod prefers to leave Alastair's nappy-changing and feeding to the hired help. Unperturbed, 37-year-old Penny has dropped heavy hints she'd like a second with the 63-year-old Celtic fan.Dad-speak: 'I didn't see my oldest kids a lot as they were growing up. I don't feel any guilt, but maybe having a family is something Rachel and Alana and I should have thought about more before we had children'Michael Douglas, a dad at 58The Basic Instinct star had a son, Cameron, with Diandra Luker, his wife of 23 years. She divorced him in 2000. Later that year he ran into Catherine Zeta Jones and seduced her with the admirably direct and honest line: 'I'd like to father your children.' True to his word he hasn't let the 25-year age gap stop him from impregnating her twice, when he was 55 and 58.Dad-speak: 'It's not that I didn't enjoy it the first time, but I just didn't have the time. I'm not the only father who has felt guilty about the lack of time spent with his kids. So now I have a situation where I can savour it with my younger children. And you can see the effect of hanging out with them for three years and the security they have. And for me, it's a ball. Movie roles come and go and it's a finite period of time. This is sort of eternal'John Humphrys, a dad at 56The Welsh son of a hairdresser and French polisher has been married twice. The first wife provided the Mastermind host with two children, now both grown up. He remarried in 1987 and, after a reverse vasectomy, the Today programme interrogator became a proud father to a son, Owen. Dad speak: 'I thought I might resent this little kid for buggering up my life, as it were. The opposite has happened to me because of him. He's the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to me'FamilyHealth & wellbeingHealthguardian.co.uk © Guardian News & Media Limited 2008 | Use of this content is subject to our Terms & Conditions | More Feeds<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">			Is 41 too late to become a father? |				Life and style |				The Observer	 {...} The latest science claims older dads can cause autism, schizophrenia and Down's Syndrome - and their fertility fades with age. Ian Tucker consults his biological clock {...}</blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> November 16, 2008, 12:05 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> November 16, 2008, 12:14 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;123KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/">Regional</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/">Europe</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/united-kingdom/">United Kingdom</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/united-kingdom/news-and-media/"><b>News and Media</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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<title>{ENTERTAINMENT &gt; PUBLICATIONS AND MEDIA} - Madonna backs Malawi school drive</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/madonna-backs-malawi-school-drive-20081176120.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">Madonna urges her fans to donate to a charity supporting schools for girls in Malawi.</summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/madonna-backs-malawi-school-drive-20081176120.htm</id>
<issued>2008-11-15T12:11:26Z</issued>
<modified>2008-11-15T12:11:26Z</modified>
<author>
<name>News.Bbc.Co.Uk</name>
<url>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7731013.stm</url>
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<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">News.Bbc.Co.Uk</span> - Madonna urges her fans to donate to a charity supporting schools for girls in Malawi.<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Madonna backs Malawi school drive {...} </blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> November 15, 2008, 12:11 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> November 15, 2008, 12:59 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;43KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/">Arts</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/">Entertainment</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/"><b>Publications and Media</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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<title>{ARTS &gt; PEOPLE} - Madonna plans to build school</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/people/madonna-plans-to-build-school-20081116216.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">MADONNA is asking fans to donate money so she can build a girls' school in Malawi for  poor children.</summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/people/madonna-plans-to-build-school-20081116216.htm</id>
<issued>2008-11-15T00:00:00Z</issued>
<modified>2008-11-15T00:00:00Z</modified>
<author>
<name>News.Scotsman.Com</name>
<url>http://news.scotsman.com/celebrities/Madonna-plans-to-build-school.4698167.jp</url>
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<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">News.Scotsman.Com</span> - MADONNA is asking fans to donate money so she can build a girls' school in Malawi for  poor children.<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">	Madonna plans to build school - Scotsman.com News {...} Madonna plans to build school - MADONNA is asking fans to donate money so she can build a girls' school in Malawi for  poor children. {...}</blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> November 15, 2008, 12:00 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> November 15, 2008, 11:29 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;44KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/">Arts</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/people/"><b>People</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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<title>{ENTERTAINMENT &gt; PUBLICATIONS AND MEDIA} - Britney joins Madonna on US stage</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/britney-joins-madonna-on-us-stage-20081189312.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">Britney Spears makes an on-stage appearance with Madonna during her show at the Dodgers Stadium in Los Angeles.</summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/britney-joins-madonna-on-us-stage-20081189312.htm</id>
<issued>2008-11-07T12:24:38Z</issued>
<modified>2008-11-07T12:24:38Z</modified>
<author>
<name>News.Bbc.Co.Uk</name>
<url>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7715435.stm</url>
</author>
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<tr><td colspan="2" style="font:bold 12pt Arial;vertical-align:top;"><a href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/britney-joins-madonna-on-us-stage-20081189312.htm"><b>Britney joins Madonna on US stage</b></a> <sup style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;">{<a href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/britney-joins-madonna-on-us-stage-20081189312.htm" target="_blank">new window</a>}</sup></td></tr>
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<td style="font:6pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;text-align:center;vertical-align:top;">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">News.Bbc.Co.Uk</span> - Britney Spears makes an on-stage appearance with Madonna during her show at the Dodgers Stadium in Los Angeles.<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Britney joins Madonna on US stage {...} </blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> November 7, 2008, 12:24 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> November 8, 2008, 10:54 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;44KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/">Arts</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/">Entertainment</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/"><b>Publications and Media</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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<entry>
<title>{INTERNET &gt; W} - I Recommend You Go to Hell</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/computers/internet/on-the-web/weblogs/personal/w/i-recommend-you-go-to-hell-2008118132.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">
        No, not you. Of course not you.

I'm talking about Amazon -- or more specifically, the 'Recommended for You' bug prank 'feature' on their website. That nasty little bastard can go straight to hell, and I hope as many pitchforks as possible poke it right in the ass on the way.

"I thought from my previous experience that the worst thing Amazon could do is ignore me. I was wrong. So very, very wrong."

Don't get me wrong. I like Amazon; I shop there all the time. And I appreciate automagical systems that can figure out what I might like -- when they actually work, that is. I only ask three things of a recommendation system -- or for that matter, a friend, spouse, or government -- and in the past week, Amazon has failed me on all three. Observe:

1. Pay attention to what I'm telling you.

A few days ago, I logged onto Amazon, looking for some CDs. Here's the conversation (only slightly rephrased) that I had with the recommendation system:

Amazon: Hi, Charlie! Welcome back! Can I help you find a CD?
Me: Okay, sure.
Amazon: I bet you'd like Bridge. It's by Blues Traveler!
Me: Oh. Um, yeah, I don't think so.
Amazon: No problem! How about Save His Soul? It's great!
Me: I dunno -- who's it by?
Amazon: Blues Traveler!
Me: You know, I'm really not a Blues Traveler fan.
Amazon: Say no more! I know of a great CD you'll love!
Me: Fine. Just tell me it's not by-
Amazon: The CD's titled Blues Traveler!
Me: *sigh* Let me guess. It's-
Amazon: That's right! It's by Blues Traveler!!! Gosh!
Me: Look, seriously. Not a Blues Traveler fan. I swear.
Amazon: But you said six months ago that you own Four.
Me: Yeah... I did. But-
Amazon: And that's by Blues Traveler! 
Me: I know. But it's my wife's, really. And I listed dozens of CDs I own.
Amazon: I know how you feel! Probably like buying Travelogue: Blues Traveler Classics. Right? Right?
Me: Dude. I gave Four two stars. Out of five. Two.
Amazon: That's more than one! Bet you'd love Blues Traveler's Greatest Hits. Betcha would!
Me: No. I wouldn't. Look, see here? I'm telling you not to use Four to suggest music any more. Okay? I happen to own one disc, but that's it. No more Blues Traveler, got it?
Amazon: Absolutely!
Me: No greatest hits, no tribute albums, no cover bands, nothing. Okay?
Amazon: You're the boss!
Me: Great. So. Do you have any other recommendations?
Amazon: Sure! You're gonna love this CD Zygote! It's super!
Me: Okay, I'm game. What type of mu-
Amazon: It's by John Popper!
Me: Wait. Isn't he-
Amazon: He's the lead singer... of Blues Traveler! Yippee!
Me: God, I hate you.
Amazon: How many copies should I put you down for?
Me: I absolutely fucking hate you.
Amazon: Don't forget One-Click Checkout&trade;! It's the best!

I nearly strangled my monitor with the mouse cord. Evidently, I should stop being so fricking honest with Amazon about the music I technically own.

Lord help me if it ever finds out my wife has the entire Madonna catalog somewhere under our roof. Jesus.

2. Don't throw 'paying attention' back in my face.

I thought from my previous experience that the worst thing Amazon could do is ignore me. I was wrong. So very, very wrong.

See, I'm a big British comedy fan. Mostly the older shows -- Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Kiss Me Kate, Keeping Up Appearances, just about anything. The subtle stuff, the bawdy stuff, the outlandish stuff, it doesn't much matter. I once even managed to sit through nearly an entire episode of Are You Being Served?.

Just once. And I called in sick to work for the rest of the week. But you get the picture.

So, last night I was poking around Amazon again, trying to find a DVD with clips from the old Alas Smith and Jones show. 

I'm not even going to bother trying to describe it, other than to call it 'two-man sketch comedy' and point you to the BBC's take above. My wife walked in last night while I was cackling giddily over a Smith and Jones 'Swiss News' clip on YouTube, and -- after I replayed it and made her watch it -- all she said was:

'It's kind of cute. But not laugh-out-loud cute. You're weird.'

Probably. But that's not important right now. The only important detail to note is that the show featured well-travelled Brit comedy stars Mel Smith and Griff Rhys Jones.

(Hence the name, you see. Clever ones, those British are.)

The astute film buffs among you may remember Mel Smith from his role as 'the Albino' in The Princess Bride, where he tended lovingly to the Pit.... of Despaaaaiiiir.

The less astute among you -- including me -- may not know that there's also a Mel Smith (a different Mel Smith, presumably, what with her evidently being a woman and all) who writes gay cowboy erotica novels, and sells them via Amazon.

Astute or not, I'd like to believe that if my recent browsing history included the phrases 'John Cleese', 'British comedy' and 'Blackadder', but not -- I can't stress this enough, now, NOT -- any phrases such as 'burly cowhand', 'assless chaps', or 'rope my dogie, Tex', then you would probably guess the context of the 'Mel Smith' search correctly.

As opposed to waiting until I logged in tonight and saying:

'Hi! Welcome back! Can we recommend 'To Love a Cowboy' for you today? It's a wild, steamy tale of a young boy and the older man he... no? Okay! How about 'Twice the Cowboy, Twice the Ride'? You'll lose yourself in... not interested? No problem! 'Stallions on the Range' it is!'

A 'Mel Smith' search is one thing. But I still can't see why Amazon loaded up so far on gay cowboy fare. Maybe Blues Traveler fans watch a lot of Brokeback Mountain. I dunno.

3. Make me feel cooler by taking your advice.

Following the Blues Traveler debacle above, I finally managed to straighten Amazon out regarding the kinds of music I like. And generally, those kinds fall into one big category -- old.

I remember the days, back in the mid-to-late '80s, when I would laugh -- laugh! -- at people listening to the Beatles, or the Doors, or early Rolling Stones. 'Geez,' I'd say with a wrinkle-free sneer, 'some of that crap is twenty years old. Get with the times, already!'

I still listen to a lot of the same music I did back then. Which was, it turns out, just about twenty years ago. It seems the sneerer has become the sneeree. Ouch.

In my defense, at least I'm not listening to the drivel you probably cringe over when you think of '80s music. I figure it's pretty hard to point and laugh over somebody 'still' listening to a band, if you have no idea who the hell they were in the first place. I'd like to claim that was a carefully planned strategic decision; actually, it just turns out that I have weird tastes in music as well as comedy, apparently.

The point is, this is where I thought Amazon might actually be able to help me, for once. So while I whipped up an order for a few CDs (by the Broken Homes, Royal Court of China and Buckwheat Zydeco, from 1988, 1989, and 1987, respectively), I asked -- nay, begged -- Amazon to find me something hipper. Something I'd like, but could brag about to all the young whippersnappers at the parties with their droopy trousers and ball caps askew.

So I hit Amazon with my (ever so slightly) more modern preferences. I may have one foot in the auditory grave, but there are some bands I like that have seen the light of this millennium, if only barely. So I rated up my 'cool' bands, like Soul Coughing and the Propellerheads and the Crystal Method. Find me something like these, I told Amazon -- something good that I've never heard of, and that all the cool kids are into these days.

The Recommendorator beeped and booped for a while, and finally spat out a name that wasn't simply the 'limited edition' version of one of the albums I'd claimed. Nor the import issue of the same album. Nor some Blues Traveler shit. Instead, the name was: 'Fluke'.

Nice. I'd never heard of Fluke. The ratings looked good. I saw comparisons to Fatboy Slim, Chemical Brothers and the like -- another positive sign in my book. So I amended my order to include the suggested disc from this hot new act, this 'Fluke' that was no doubt all the rage at the raves and clubs and raves and yes-I-know-I-already-said-raves and clubs and raves and I-just-have-no-freaking-clue-where-else-kids-hang-out-these-days and raves where the kids are hanging out these days. Smugly satisfied with my newly purchased street cred, I eagerly awaited delivery of my CDs.

They came today. Four CDs in total. The old stuff is great -- just like I remembered, catchy and clever and steeped in nostalgia. Better yet, the Fluke CD is awfully good, too. After a couple of turns through the disc, there are only a couple of songs that I'm 'enh' about, and three or four that really stand out as gems. As a newly-bought and never-heard disc, it's really quite a catch.

And as a conversation piece and ticket to street cred, it's a steaming pile of dingo shit.

Turns out this 'new' band that's all the rage with their new CD was, in fact, all the rage back in 1997. They released their first single back in 1988. And the Wikipedia blurb including the CD I bought is two full sections before 'Current work'.

Damn it.

Fluke's not new; I'm just old. And they happened to stay off my radar for, oh, twenty years or so. But I never would have realized the tragic depths of my unhipness, were it not for Amazon's trusty 'Recommendations' system taunting me with decade-old CDs and laughing and pointing.

So thanks for zippo, Amazon. Take your ballad pop and your cowboy porn and your aging techno albums and shove them up your mail slot. Next time I want recommendations, I'm going to fricking Pandora.

(But I can still come back to buy CDs, right? That Super Shipper Saving&trade; is awesome!!!1!OMGeleventy!)
        
    </summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/computers/internet/on-the-web/weblogs/personal/w/i-recommend-you-go-to-hell-2008118132.htm</id>
<issued>2008-11-01T11:24:03Z</issued>
<modified>2008-11-01T11:24:03Z</modified>
<author>
<name>Wherethehellwasi.Com</name>
<url>http://www.wherethehellwasi.com/categories/stupid-computers/i_recommend_you_go_to_hell.html</url>
</author>
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<td style="font:6pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;text-align:center;vertical-align:top;">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">Www.Wherethehellwasi.Com</span> - 
        No, not you. Of course not you.

I'm talking about Amazon -- or more specifically, the 'Recommended for You' bug prank 'feature' on their website. That nasty little bastard can go straight to hell, and I hope as many pitchforks as possible poke it right in the ass on the way.

"I thought from my previous experience that the worst thing Amazon could do is ignore me. I was wrong. So very, very wrong."

Don't get me wrong. I like Amazon; I shop there all the time. And I appreciate automagical systems that can figure out what I might like -- when they actually work, that is. I only ask three things of a recommendation system -- or for that matter, a friend, spouse, or government -- and in the past week, Amazon has failed me on all three. Observe:

1. Pay attention to what I'm telling you.

A few days ago, I logged onto Amazon, looking for some CDs. Here's the conversation (only slightly rephrased) that I had with the recommendation system:

Amazon: Hi, Charlie! Welcome back! Can I help you find a CD?
Me: Okay, sure.
Amazon: I bet you'd like Bridge. It's by Blues Traveler!
Me: Oh. Um, yeah, I don't think so.
Amazon: No problem! How about Save His Soul? It's great!
Me: I dunno -- who's it by?
Amazon: Blues Traveler!
Me: You know, I'm really not a Blues Traveler fan.
Amazon: Say no more! I know of a great CD you'll love!
Me: Fine. Just tell me it's not by-
Amazon: The CD's titled Blues Traveler!
Me: *sigh* Let me guess. It's-
Amazon: That's right! It's by Blues Traveler!!! Gosh!
Me: Look, seriously. Not a Blues Traveler fan. I swear.
Amazon: But you said six months ago that you own Four.
Me: Yeah... I did. But-
Amazon: And that's by Blues Traveler! 
Me: I know. But it's my wife's, really. And I listed dozens of CDs I own.
Amazon: I know how you feel! Probably like buying Travelogue: Blues Traveler Classics. Right? Right?
Me: Dude. I gave Four two stars. Out of five. Two.
Amazon: That's more than one! Bet you'd love Blues Traveler's Greatest Hits. Betcha would!
Me: No. I wouldn't. Look, see here? I'm telling you not to use Four to suggest music any more. Okay? I happen to own one disc, but that's it. No more Blues Traveler, got it?
Amazon: Absolutely!
Me: No greatest hits, no tribute albums, no cover bands, nothing. Okay?
Amazon: You're the boss!
Me: Great. So. Do you have any other recommendations?
Amazon: Sure! You're gonna love this CD Zygote! It's super!
Me: Okay, I'm game. What type of mu-
Amazon: It's by John Popper!
Me: Wait. Isn't he-
Amazon: He's the lead singer... of Blues Traveler! Yippee!
Me: God, I hate you.
Amazon: How many copies should I put you down for?
Me: I absolutely fucking hate you.
Amazon: Don't forget One-Click Checkout&trade;! It's the best!

I nearly strangled my monitor with the mouse cord. Evidently, I should stop being so fricking honest with Amazon about the music I technically own.

Lord help me if it ever finds out my wife has the entire Madonna catalog somewhere under our roof. Jesus.

2. Don't throw 'paying attention' back in my face.

I thought from my previous experience that the worst thing Amazon could do is ignore me. I was wrong. So very, very wrong.

See, I'm a big British comedy fan. Mostly the older shows -- Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Kiss Me Kate, Keeping Up Appearances, just about anything. The subtle stuff, the bawdy stuff, the outlandish stuff, it doesn't much matter. I once even managed to sit through nearly an entire episode of Are You Being Served?.

Just once. And I called in sick to work for the rest of the week. But you get the picture.

So, last night I was poking around Amazon again, trying to find a DVD with clips from the old Alas Smith and Jones show. 

I'm not even going to bother trying to describe it, other than to call it 'two-man sketch comedy' and point you to the BBC's take above. My wife walked in last night while I was cackling giddily over a Smith and Jones 'Swiss News' clip on YouTube, and -- after I replayed it and made her watch it -- all she said was:

'It's kind of cute. But not laugh-out-loud cute. You're weird.'

Probably. But that's not important right now. The only important detail to note is that the show featured well-travelled Brit comedy stars Mel Smith and Griff Rhys Jones.

(Hence the name, you see. Clever ones, those British are.)

The astute film buffs among you may remember Mel Smith from his role as 'the Albino' in The Princess Bride, where he tended lovingly to the Pit.... of Despaaaaiiiir.

The less astute among you -- including me -- may not know that there's also a Mel Smith (a different Mel Smith, presumably, what with her evidently being a woman and all) who writes gay cowboy erotica novels, and sells them via Amazon.

Astute or not, I'd like to believe that if my recent browsing history included the phrases 'John Cleese', 'British comedy' and 'Blackadder', but not -- I can't stress this enough, now, NOT -- any phrases such as 'burly cowhand', 'assless chaps', or 'rope my dogie, Tex', then you would probably guess the context of the 'Mel Smith' search correctly.

As opposed to waiting until I logged in tonight and saying:

'Hi! Welcome back! Can we recommend 'To Love a Cowboy' for you today? It's a wild, steamy tale of a young boy and the older man he... no? Okay! How about 'Twice the Cowboy, Twice the Ride'? You'll lose yourself in... not interested? No problem! 'Stallions on the Range' it is!'

A 'Mel Smith' search is one thing. But I still can't see why Amazon loaded up so far on gay cowboy fare. Maybe Blues Traveler fans watch a lot of Brokeback Mountain. I dunno.

3. Make me feel cooler by taking your advice.

Following the Blues Traveler debacle above, I finally managed to straighten Amazon out regarding the kinds of music I like. And generally, those kinds fall into one big category -- old.

I remember the days, back in the mid-to-late '80s, when I would laugh -- laugh! -- at people listening to the Beatles, or the Doors, or early Rolling Stones. 'Geez,' I'd say with a wrinkle-free sneer, 'some of that crap is twenty years old. Get with the times, already!'

I still listen to a lot of the same music I did back then. Which was, it turns out, just about twenty years ago. It seems the sneerer has become the sneeree. Ouch.

In my defense, at least I'm not listening to the drivel you probably cringe over when you think of '80s music. I figure it's pretty hard to point and laugh over somebody 'still' listening to a band, if you have no idea who the hell they were in the first place. I'd like to claim that was a carefully planned strategic decision; actually, it just turns out that I have weird tastes in music as well as comedy, apparently.

The point is, this is where I thought Amazon might actually be able to help me, for once. So while I whipped up an order for a few CDs (by the Broken Homes, Royal Court of China and Buckwheat Zydeco, from 1988, 1989, and 1987, respectively), I asked -- nay, begged -- Amazon to find me something hipper. Something I'd like, but could brag about to all the young whippersnappers at the parties with their droopy trousers and ball caps askew.

So I hit Amazon with my (ever so slightly) more modern preferences. I may have one foot in the auditory grave, but there are some bands I like that have seen the light of this millennium, if only barely. So I rated up my 'cool' bands, like Soul Coughing and the Propellerheads and the Crystal Method. Find me something like these, I told Amazon -- something good that I've never heard of, and that all the cool kids are into these days.

The Recommendorator beeped and booped for a while, and finally spat out a name that wasn't simply the 'limited edition' version of one of the albums I'd claimed. Nor the import issue of the same album. Nor some Blues Traveler shit. Instead, the name was: 'Fluke'.

Nice. I'd never heard of Fluke. The ratings looked good. I saw comparisons to Fatboy Slim, Chemical Brothers and the like -- another positive sign in my book. So I amended my order to include the suggested disc from this hot new act, this 'Fluke' that was no doubt all the rage at the raves and clubs and raves and yes-I-know-I-already-said-raves and clubs and raves and I-just-have-no-freaking-clue-where-else-kids-hang-out-these-days and raves where the kids are hanging out these days. Smugly satisfied with my newly purchased street cred, I eagerly awaited delivery of my CDs.

They came today. Four CDs in total. The old stuff is great -- just like I remembered, catchy and clever and steeped in nostalgia. Better yet, the Fluke CD is awfully good, too. After a couple of turns through the disc, there are only a couple of songs that I'm 'enh' about, and three or four that really stand out as gems. As a newly-bought and never-heard disc, it's really quite a catch.

And as a conversation piece and ticket to street cred, it's a steaming pile of dingo shit.

Turns out this 'new' band that's all the rage with their new CD was, in fact, all the rage back in 1997. They released their first single back in 1988. And the Wikipedia blurb including the CD I bought is two full sections before 'Current work'.

Damn it.

Fluke's not new; I'm just old. And they happened to stay off my radar for, oh, twenty years or so. But I never would have realized the tragic depths of my unhipness, were it not for Amazon's trusty 'Recommendations' system taunting me with decade-old CDs and laughing and pointing.

So thanks for zippo, Amazon. Take your ballad pop and your cowboy porn and your aging techno albums and shove them up your mail slot. Next time I want recommendations, I'm going to fricking Pandora.

(But I can still come back to buy CDs, right? That Super Shipper Saving&trade; is awesome!!!1!OMGeleventy!)
        
    <blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">I Recommend You Go to Hell [Where the Hell Was I?] {...} Life, from a comic perspective. Original articles, humor, & funny stories daily from an aspiring Boston standup comedian. {...}</blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> November 1, 2008, 11:24 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;67KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/computers/">Computers</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/computers/internet/">Internet</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/computers/internet/on-the-web/">On the Web</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/computers/internet/on-the-web/weblogs/">Weblogs</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/computers/internet/on-the-web/weblogs/personal/">Personal</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/computers/internet/on-the-web/weblogs/personal/w/"><b>W</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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]]></content>
</entry>
<entry>
<title>{NEWS} - Paltrow 'supporting' pal Madonna</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/news/paltrow-supporting-pal-madonna-20081051124.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">Hollywood actress Gwyneth Paltrow is "supporting" her friend Madonna as the singer divorces husband Guy Ritchie.</summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/news/paltrow-supporting-pal-madonna-20081051124.htm</id>
<issued>2008-10-21T10:24:18Z</issued>
<modified>2008-10-21T10:24:18Z</modified>
<author>
<name>News.Bbc.Co.Uk</name>
<url>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7681365.stm</url>
</author>
<content type="text/html" mode="escaped" xml:lang="en-us" xml:base="http://www.world-of-newave.info/"><![CDATA[
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<tr><td colspan="2" style="font:bold 12pt Arial;vertical-align:top;"><a href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/news/paltrow-supporting-pal-madonna-20081051124.htm"><b>Paltrow 'supporting' pal Madonna</b></a> <sup style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;">{<a href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/news/paltrow-supporting-pal-madonna-20081051124.htm" target="_blank">new window</a>}</sup></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="font:6pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;text-align:center;vertical-align:top;">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">News.Bbc.Co.Uk</span> - Hollywood actress Gwyneth Paltrow is "supporting" her friend Madonna as the singer divorces husband Guy Ritchie.<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Paltrow 'supporting' pal Madonna {...} Hollywood actress Gwyneth Paltrow is "supporting" her friend Madonna as the singer divorces husband Guy Ritchie. {...}</blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> October 21, 2008, 10:24 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> October 21, 2008, 1:14 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;51KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span>  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/news/"><b>News</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
<br/>
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</entry>
<entry>
<title>{ENTERTAINMENT &gt; PUBLICATIONS AND MEDIA} - Madonna show goes on after split</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/madonna-show-goes-on-after-split-20081089227.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">Pop star Madonna takes to the stage on the same day she and husband Guy Ritchie announce they are divorcing.</summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/madonna-show-goes-on-after-split-20081089227.htm</id>
<issued>2008-10-16T13:59:45Z</issued>
<modified>2008-10-16T13:59:45Z</modified>
<author>
<name>News.Bbc.Co.Uk</name>
<url>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7673784.stm</url>
</author>
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<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">News.Bbc.Co.Uk</span> - Pop star Madonna takes to the stage on the same day she and husband Guy Ritchie announce they are divorcing.<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Madonna show goes on after split {...} </blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> October 16, 2008, 1:59 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> October 16, 2008, 5:46 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;55KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/">Arts</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/">Entertainment</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/entertainment/publications-and-media/"><b>Publications and Media</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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<entry>
<title>{EUROPE &gt; HEADLINE LINKS} - Madonna split unites newspapers</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/united-kingdom/news-and-media/headline-links/madonna-split-unites-newspapers-20081073725.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">Madonna and Guy Ritchie's plans to divorce feature in all of Thursday's papers.</summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/united-kingdom/news-and-media/headline-links/madonna-split-unites-newspapers-20081073725.htm</id>
<issued>2008-10-16T06:22:43Z</issued>
<modified>2008-10-16T06:22:43Z</modified>
<author>
<name>News.Bbc.Co.Uk</name>
<url>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7673108.stm</url>
</author>
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<td style="font:6pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;text-align:center;vertical-align:top;">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">News.Bbc.Co.Uk</span> - Madonna and Guy Ritchie's plans to divorce feature in all of Thursday's papers.<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">BBC NEWS | UK | Madonna split unites newspapers {...} </blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> October 16, 2008, 6:22 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> October 16, 2008, 5:50 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;49KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/">Regional</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/">Europe</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/united-kingdom/">United Kingdom</a> &gt; <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/united-kingdom/news-and-media/">News and Media</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/regional/europe/united-kingdom/news-and-media/headline-links/"><b>Headline Links</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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<entry>
<title>{ARTS &gt; MUSIC} - Madonna and Ritchie: Our  marriage  is  over</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/music/madonna-and-ritchie-our-marriage-is-over-20081082120.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">MADONNA and  her film-maker husband, Guy Ritchie,  yesterday  announced plans to divorce after nearly eight years of marriage.</summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/music/madonna-and-ritchie-our-marriage-is-over-20081082120.htm</id>
<issued>2008-10-16T01:00:00Z</issued>
<modified>2008-10-16T01:00:00Z</modified>
<author>
<name>News.Scotsman.Com</name>
<url>http://news.scotsman.com/music/Madonna-and-Ritchie-Our-.4596454.jp</url>
</author>
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<td style="font:6pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;text-align:center;vertical-align:top;">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">News.Scotsman.Com</span> - MADONNA and  her film-maker husband, Guy Ritchie,  yesterday  announced plans to divorce after nearly eight years of marriage.<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">	 - Scotsman.com News {...}  -  {...}</blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> October 16, 2008, 1:00 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> October 17, 2008, 12:50 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;57KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/">Arts</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/music/"><b>Music</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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</entry>
<entry>
<title>{ARTS &gt; MOVIES} - Madonna and Ritchie: Our  marriage  is  over</title>
<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/movies/madonna-and-ritchie-our-marriage-is-over-20081098823.htm"/>
<summary type="text/plain">MADONNA and  her film-maker husband, Guy Ritchie,  yesterday  announced plans to divorce after nearly eight years of marriage.</summary>
<id>http://articles.world-of-newave.info/arts/movies/madonna-and-ritchie-our-marriage-is-over-20081098823.htm</id>
<issued>2008-10-16T01:00:00Z</issued>
<modified>2008-10-16T01:00:00Z</modified>
<author>
<name>News.Scotsman.Com</name>
<url>http://news.scotsman.com/movies/Madonna-and-Ritchie-Our-.4596454.jp</url>
</author>
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<td style="font:6pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;text-align:center;vertical-align:top;">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" style="font:9pt Verdana,Arial,Sans-serif;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;font-variant:small-caps;">News.Scotsman.Com</span> - MADONNA and  her film-maker husband, Guy Ritchie,  yesterday  announced plans to divorce after nearly eight years of marriage.<blockquote style="background:#FAFAFA;border:1px dotted #E6E6E6;font:italic 10pt Times New Roman;padding:9px;">	 - Scotsman.com News {...}  -  {...}</blockquote><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Published:</span> October 16, 2008, 1:00 am - <span style="color:#808080;">Indexed:</span> October 16, 2008, 6:12 pm - <span style="color:#808080;">Page Size:</span>&nbsp;55KB</div><div style="font:8pt Verdana,Arial;vertical-align:top;"><span style="color:#808080;">Category:</span> <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/">Arts</a> &gt;  <a href="http://www.world-of-newave.info/arts/movies/"><b>Movies</b></a></div></td></tr></table>
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